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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 6, 2022 6:08:06 GMT -8
To Sparta RW/LW Jakub Voracek PLY (33) - 87OVR - 7M UFA 2023 - 50% retained by MUN cap = 3.5M - 50% retained by HEL cap = 1.75M HEL 2024 2nd To Munchen RW Alexander Holtz SNP 77 (20) .925M RFA 2025 SPA 2023 1st To Helsinki SPA 2023 2nd SPA 2024 2nd Junkie Piece of ShitSlovan Stags GM |
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Post by Junkie Piece of Shit on Sept 6, 2022 6:12:05 GMT -8
accept
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Post by Slovan Stags GM on Sept 6, 2022 13:01:51 GMT -8
Yup
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 6, 2022 17:30:45 GMT -8
Final
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 10:33:26 GMT -8
These trades are total ass guys... 87+ overall players, no matter how old they are, are worth more than a barely roster eligible prospect & 1st. 🙄
Get your heads out of your asses already... Please.
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 11:07:10 GMT -8
These trades are total ass guys... 87+ overall players, no matter how old they are, are worth more than a barely roster eligible prospect & 1st. 🙄 Get your heads out of your asses already... Please. Get the stick out of your ass and let GMs run their teams. |
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Post by Atlanta Thrashers GM on Sept 7, 2022 11:12:24 GMT -8
Guys get your fucking heads out of your asses. REJECT!!!!!
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 13:05:04 GMT -8
These trades are total ass guys... 87+ overall players, no matter how old they are, are worth more than a barely roster eligible prospect & 1st. 🙄 Get your heads out of your asses already... Please. Get the stick out of your ass and let GMs run their teams. It's not just about letting GMs run their teams when trades like this ruin leagues, and why we didn't allow them for nearly 10 years. |
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 13:09:00 GMT -8
Get the stick out of your ass and let GMs run their teams. It's not just about letting GMs run their teams when trades like this ruin leagues, and why we didn't allow them for nearly 10 years. In what world does this trade ruin a league? I think constant rejection of trades will ruin a league faster |
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 13:21:34 GMT -8
It's not just about letting GMs run their teams when trades like this ruin leagues, and why we didn't allow them for nearly 10 years. In what world does this trade ruin a league? I think constant rejection of trades will ruin a league faster As it's always been it's because it creates an imbalance in player vs draft pick value ratios. It over inflates pick & prospect values and absolutely devalues older players that aren't into their guaranteed downgrade, regardless of overall, cuz, at least here, you're basically saying that 2 70s-ish overall players are worth an 87, which it is not. |
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 13:37:03 GMT -8
Get the stick out of your ass and let GMs run their teams. It's not just about letting GMs run their teams when trades like this ruin leagues, and why we didn't allow them for nearly 10 years. Voracek starts auto downgrades next year and it's not like Holtz and the first will stay as 70s, Holtz in every league always ends up at least mid 80s. This is a trade you would see irl. The Leafs got similar in the Phil Kessel trade (where they retained for 7 years and Kessel was 27 at the time). So yeah, this is as legit of a trade as you'd see irl as well lmao. |
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 13:55:47 GMT -8
It's not just about letting GMs run their teams when trades like this ruin leagues, and why we didn't allow them for nearly 10 years. Voracek starts auto downgrades next year and it's not like Holtz and the first will stay as 70s, Holtz in every league always ends up at least mid 80s. This is a trade you would see irl. The Leafs got similar in the Phil Kessel trade (where they retained for 7 years and Kessel was 27 at the time). So yeah, this is as legit of a trade as you'd see irl as well lmao. Voracek doesn't start his auto downgrades til 2 off seasons from now, not one. So, since you wanna talk "potential", you're potentially getting an 87 for 2 seasons for basically only a 77 and say a 73, potentially. You're completely devaluing an 87 overall player cuz until they actually start their regression, their overall is their value. |
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 14:02:04 GMT -8
Voracek starts auto downgrades next year and it's not like Holtz and the first will stay as 70s, Holtz in every league always ends up at least mid 80s. This is a trade you would see irl. The Leafs got similar in the Phil Kessel trade (where they retained for 7 years and Kessel was 27 at the time). So yeah, this is as legit of a trade as you'd see irl as well lmao. Voracek doesn't start his auto downgrades til 2 off seasons from now, not one. So, since you wanna talk "potential", you're potentially getting an 87 for 2 seasons for basically only a 77 and say a 73, potentially. You're completely devaluing an 87 overall player cuz until they actually start their regression, their overall is their value. And you're completely undervaluing the prospects because two seasons from now they won't be a 77 and a 73. You are also only looking at this short term. In the long run those two players will have more value than Voracek will. In 5 seasons for example, Voracek will be retired or close to it while those two players will probably have at least middle six roles in their lineup. This isn't season mode in NHL, it's a long term move that will pay off in more than just 2 seasons. |
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 14:13:26 GMT -8
Voracek doesn't start his auto downgrades til 2 off seasons from now, not one. So, since you wanna talk "potential", you're potentially getting an 87 for 2 seasons for basically only a 77 and say a 73, potentially. You're completely devaluing an 87 overall player cuz until they actually start their regression, their overall is their value. And you're completely undervaluing the prospects because two seasons from now they won't be a 77 and a 73. You are also only looking at this short term. In the long run those two players will have more value than Voracek will. In 5 seasons for example, Voracek will be retired or close to it while those two players will probably have at least middle six roles in their lineup. This isn't season mode in NHL, it's a long term move that will pay off in more than just 2 seasons. No, I'm not undervaluing the prospects at all. You just can't value them solely based on what they might potentially end up 5 years from now either. That's ridiculous. Not to mention you're valuing a still 87 overall player as though he's already regressed to being an 84. Overalls mean something too. 🤷 |
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Post by Slovan Stags GM on Sept 7, 2022 14:41:44 GMT -8
Top 5 picks the 1st Season Last ERA
1.C Shane Wright SNP 83 (18) 4M RFA 2025
2. C Brad Lambert PLY 81 (18) 3.85M RFA 2025
3. LW Juraj Slafkovsky PWF 80 (18) 3.5M RFA 2025
4.LW Ivan Miroshnichenko SNP 80 (18) 3M RFA 2025
5. RD Simon Nemec TWD 78 (18) 3M RFA 2025
4 of 5 of those guys went on to be big parts of their teams. In the case of Slaf/Miro HUGE parts.
I don’t see a lot of teams willing to take that gamble right now of giving up their S1 1st Rd pick
Holtz was an 86-87 too
Could this go bad for MCH? Sure, but I think it’s an ok gamble for what his plans are. Obviously no guarantees that pick is that good. But if Voracek sucks out the gate he not gonna get that probably
I think this is fine
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 7, 2022 14:47:55 GMT -8
Top 5 picks the 1st Season Last ERA 1.C Shane Wright SNP 83 (18) 4M RFA 2025 2. C Brad Lambert PLY 81 (18) 3.85M RFA 2025 3. LW Juraj Slafkovsky PWF 80 (18) 3.5M RFA 2025 4.LW Ivan Miroshnichenko SNP 80 (18) 3M RFA 2025 5. RD Simon Nemec TWD 78 (18) 3M RFA 2025 4 of 5 of those guys went on to be big parts of their teams. In the case of Slaf/Miro HUGE parts. I don’t see a lot of teams willing to take that gamble right now of giving up their S1 1st Rd pick Holtz was an 86-87 too Could this go bad for MCH? Sure, but I think it’s an ok gamble for what his plans are. Obviously no guarantees that pick is that good. But if Voracek sucks out the gate he not gonna get that probably I think this is fine That's not the point, again, your basing valuation solely on what they could be, and completely disregarding what their current skill is, but then, on the other side, you're already valuing an 87 overall as though he's already regressed to an 83-84. Neither of which are right. |
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Post by Slovan Stags GM on Sept 7, 2022 15:26:38 GMT -8
Top 5 picks the 1st Season Last ERA 1.C Shane Wright SNP 83 (18) 4M RFA 2025 2. C Brad Lambert PLY 81 (18) 3.85M RFA 2025 3. LW Juraj Slafkovsky PWF 80 (18) 3.5M RFA 2025 4.LW Ivan Miroshnichenko SNP 80 (18) 3M RFA 2025 5. RD Simon Nemec TWD 78 (18) 3M RFA 2025 4 of 5 of those guys went on to be big parts of their teams. In the case of Slaf/Miro HUGE parts. I don’t see a lot of teams willing to take that gamble right now of giving up their S1 1st Rd pick Holtz was an 86-87 too Could this go bad for MCH? Sure, but I think it’s an ok gamble for what his plans are. Obviously no guarantees that pick is that good. But if Voracek sucks out the gate he not gonna get that probably I think this is fine That's not the point, again, your basing valuation solely on what they could be, and completely disregarding what their current skill is, but then, on the other side, you're already valuing an 87 overall as though he's already regressed to an 83-84. Neither of which are right. Wtf you talking about? How would any trades get done ever with what you’re saying? By that rationale a 77 is only worth a 77 and so on. That’s such BS. It’s now the world works, it’s not how our leagues work. Slaf was an 87 for most of that ERA and had maxed out traits by the end. Holtz was mostly 84-85 but got a little high toward the end. Heinz is selling something now in the hopes of something later. Why is that concept so lost on you? Trades like this happen. Like I said, maybe it’s not as good as Slaf. It’s wayyy to early to make predictions on that. Heinz is an experienced GM. He’s allowed to make this call. I personally wouldn’t give him a 1st RD pick for Voracek, let alone Dorofeyev + 1st for him. So I think he did just fine. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. This isn’t a McDavid for Matt Roy trade. It’s not a noob getting raped, it’s legal. Everyone is compliant. By all means, give you opinion on the trade. But it’s not reject worthy |
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Post by Iasi Scorpions GM on Sept 7, 2022 17:41:29 GMT -8
I think these trades are crazy and I will be rejecting them all the time. Spliting a players cap hit 3 ways is gonna be fun to try and keep track of year after year. I know it is a one year contract, but these things are retarded
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 17:46:37 GMT -8
I think these trades are crazy and I will be rejecting them all the time. Spliting a players cap hit 3 ways is gonna be fun to try and keep track of year after year. I know it is a one year contract, but these things are retarded If the NHL allows it so should we |
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Post by Iasi Scorpions GM on Sept 7, 2022 17:52:28 GMT -8
I think these trades are crazy and I will be rejecting them all the time. Spliting a players cap hit 3 ways is gonna be fun to try and keep track of year after year. I know it is a one year contract, but these things are retarded If the NHL allows it so should we I still think it is joke. But I guess if that is the direction we are headed in it is up to league. I just don't like it all but I guess I am just getting too old for some of this. When it is time I will step aside, not yet but soon. I can't do all of this anymore, way too much to try and keep track of for me. I guess that is why I kept it simple with the keeper league for so many years  |
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 7, 2022 18:11:03 GMT -8
If the NHL allows it so should we I still think it is joke. But I guess if that is the direction we are headed in it is up to league. I just don't like it all but I guess I am just getting too old for some of this. When it is time I will step aside, not yet but soon. I can't do all of this anymore, way too much to try and keep track of for me. I guess that is why I kept it simple with the keeper league for so many years If stuff is confusing you you can always ask myself or the admins to explain it further, we’d be more than happy to help you |
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Post by Iasi Scorpions GM on Sept 7, 2022 18:25:41 GMT -8
I still think it is joke. But I guess if that is the direction we are headed in it is up to league. I just don't like it all but I guess I am just getting too old for some of this. When it is time I will step aside, not yet but soon. I can't do all of this anymore, way too much to try and keep track of for me. I guess that is why I kept it simple with the keeper league for so many years If stuff is confusing you you can always ask myself or the admins to explain it further, we’d be more than happy to help you With the Juniors and everything it is just way too much to keep track of and a huge disadvantage when you can't unfortunatly. Guys get bonuses for that stuff |
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Post by Slovan Stags GM on Sept 7, 2022 19:00:17 GMT -8
If stuff is confusing you you can always ask myself or the admins to explain it further, we’d be more than happy to help you With the Juniors and everything it is just way too much to keep track of and a huge disadvantage when you can't unfortunatly. Guys get bonuses for that stuff You’re talking about things that literally only require about 20 mins extra of your time. You’ve never tried so you wouldn’t know. The amount of time you and Kruze spend complaining about things that you guys “cant keep track of” , or are “ruining sims” could be spent learning the system and enjoying it for what it actually is. You keep bringing up Jrs, but we had AHL before which arguably was a bigger mess with less compliance, and more guys to keep track of. You were one of the guys complaining about AHL back at Rockem too. I try to come up with something different, doesn’t matter to you. Same with Kruze. Dude brings up the retention ad nauseam, I rework it a little to make final year only on double 50%. Do I hear a hey, I think that was good closing that a little? Nah, its your guys way or bitch fest. Fuck what the other 26 GMs want Getting convinced it’s always gonna be something. We’re sitting here with a full league of 27 GM, almost all long time vets and we still complaining about retention and a deal no one gonna give two shits about a season from now. Cmon guys. Season gonna start soon |
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Post by Iasi Scorpions GM on Sept 8, 2022 5:54:53 GMT -8
With the Juniors and everything it is just way too much to keep track of and a huge disadvantage when you can't unfortunatly. Guys get bonuses for that stuff You’re talking about things that literally only require about 20 mins extra of your time. You’ve never tried so you wouldn’t know. The amount of time you and Kruze spend complaining about things that you guys “cant keep track of” , or are “ruining sims” could be spent learning the system and enjoying it for what it actually is. You keep bringing up Jrs, but we had AHL before which arguably was a bigger mess with less compliance, and more guys to keep track of. You were one of the guys complaining about AHL back at Rockem too. I try to come up with something different, doesn’t matter to you. Same with Kruze. Dude brings up the retention ad nauseam, I rework it a little to make final year only on double 50%. Do I hear a hey, I think that was good closing that a little? Nah, its your guys way or bitch fest. Fuck what the other 26 GMs want Getting convinced it’s always gonna be something. We’re sitting here with a full league of 27 GM, almost all long time vets and we still complaining about retention and a deal no one gonna give two shits about a season from now. Cmon guys. Season gonna start soon If my opinions are that much of issue for you just kick my ass out. At this point I don't really give a shit. Do whatever you need to do |
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Post by Slovan Stags GM on Sept 8, 2022 7:59:59 GMT -8
Iasi Scorpions GM I think you’re kinda being a little stubborn about WJC. You’re always around and active. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be doing that. I think you’d actually enjoy it if you gave it a shot. It’s downtime for box scores anyway. Enjoy the “vacation” and run one of the Canadian Teams S1 Why would I kick you out? I’m just saying it bums me out, like we’ve discussed a bunch now, that you always threatening to quit. You’re supposed to be a mod here, and yet you always kinda dissing stuff. I just don’t get why everything has to be so reactionary, and how something can be too much that you haven’t even tried. You haven’t even really said what exactly is too much? Keeping track of retentions? Dont do them Nominations? I’ll auto you if ya want. You don’t have to run a team a WJC team. Don’t want the extra players? All you HAVE to have is the 2 F, 2 D , 1 G injury replacements. So just get back to me on PM or wherever about what’s got you so down keeping track of, and I’ll get you covered
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 8, 2022 8:45:56 GMT -8
I think these trades are crazy and I will be rejecting them all the time. Spliting a players cap hit 3 ways is gonna be fun to try and keep track of year after year. I know it is a one year contract, but these things are retarded If the NHL allows it so should we No, not necessarily... And definitely not everything, cuz not everything is transferrable, clearly. We don't have a CBA, or a player's union, so there's no threat of players strike or a lockout, ever, which makes citing the CBA, on almost anything, absolutely ridiculous. What you're trying to do here, and with your other BS trades over the last 2 days, besides team stacking, is try to force your own vision of what you THINK market value should be, but the reality it that, market value is already built in. Cuz, unlike the NHL, we have the luxury & benefit of knowing what these players overall skill levels are right now. It's right there in black & white, yet you want to have them valued solely on what they could be alone, which is wrong. Potential is only a factor, not their entire value cuz they still have to get there first. Using this deal as an example, all we know for certain is that Voracek is an 87 & Holtz is a 77 cuz they're the only 2 actual players being moved around. Now, Voracek's age has absolutely no bearing on this because his contract is only for this season, and there is no guaranteed threat of him downgrading at all, but because it's a potential rental situation, that brings down the value a little bit, but it doesn't change the fact that Voracek is going to be an 87 all season long. Then you factor in the fact that you've duped some other 3rd party team to pay half his salary, and now you're only paying what amounts to an 84s salary for an 87 player, cuz you can't really afford the player in the first place. So, for me, that cancels out the potential rental situation factor cuz you're only paying half the salary of an 87 player for said last season on his current contract. Then you move on to Holtz, who is a fantastic prospect, and theoretically could be inserted into the lineup immediately as a 77, however, just looking at this season alone since that's all that's left on the contract of the player he's being dealt for, you can't really value him as an 85 or an 87 yet cuz it's abundantly rare that any player gets +5 upgrade, let alone 2 seasons in a row, if you really want to factor in when Voracek does officially start his regression process and possibly signs an extension. For me, that places Holtz's value at no higher than 82 in this particular deal, but more likely is an 80. Then you factor in the 1st round draft pick, that you seem to be valuing as a top 10-15 overall pick, when the reality is that it's more likely to be towards the ass end of the 1st round, which really is about a 71, or less. With 1 season of Jr, that's maybe a 74 or less, if that player even plays in Jr's. 🤷 So what you're basically trying to tell people that an 82 (or less) & 74 (or less), at best, are worth a solid 87, as of right now. How is that a solid/fair trade exactly? 🤔🤷 It just doesn't add up at all, and you should need to add to Holtz & a 1st cuz you're not even giving up enough to aquire an 87 for 1 season, especially when you're not paying his entire salary. |
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Post by Texas Rattlesnakes GM on Sept 8, 2022 9:01:32 GMT -8
Personally, I like all caps. That's how I print shit in real life. LOL. It's really interesting to see the different things that annoy people and what doesn't. We got quite The Eclectic group here I'll tell you what!
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 8, 2022 9:07:49 GMT -8
Personally, I like all caps. That's how I print shit in real life. LOL. It's really interesting to see the different things that annoy people and what doesn't. We got quite The Eclectic group here I'll tell you what! Not sure what all caps has to do with anything... 🤔🤨😂😂 But you are definitely correct with the last part. lol |
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Post by Aachen der Adlers GM on Sept 8, 2022 9:09:59 GMT -8
Personally, I like all caps. That's how I print shit in real life. LOL. It's really interesting to see the different things that annoy people and what doesn't. We got quite The Eclectic group here I'll tell you what! You're not even in the right thread lmao |
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Post by Seattle Spitfires GM on Sept 8, 2022 9:30:56 GMT -8
Same with Kruze. Dude brings up the retention ad nauseam, I rework it a little to make final year only on double 50%. Do I hear a hey, I think that was good closing that a little? Nah, its your guys way or bitch fest. Fuck what the other 26 GMs want Getting convinced it’s always gonna be something. We’re sitting here with a full league of 27 GM, almost all long time vets and we still complaining about retention and a deal no one gonna give two shits about a season from now. Cmon guys. Season gonna start soon For the record, while still I do believe that that the retention does get abused, at nauseum, to use your words... lol And, as I explained above, that wasn't even a major factor for me in this one, or other ones over the last 2 days, other than it's affect on my overall evaluation of the principle deal which, here, was Holtz & a 1st for Voracek. Cuz, even though it affects the principle deal, I view the retention for picks more as a separate transaction, and just look more at the principle deal first to determine if I feel it's fair or not, then factor in any retention, and, for me, this deal wasn't even really close unless Sparta added another 80-ish play, another decent 70s prospect or, at the very least, a 2nd. The retention only made it worse in this case, unfortunately. 🤷 |
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